Curse

Xenomortis · Jul 09, 2011, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

HM spawns more mobs.

You've missed my point.
I'm not asking about the difference between Hard Mode and Normal Mode, I'm asking for confirmation on a difference between the normal quests in Hard Mode and the Hard Mode quests.

Kunder · Jul 09, 2011, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arato

You couldn't do WiK with ONLY Prophecies, you also were required to have Eye of the North, therefore, you have access to heroes and pve skills.

I wasn't considering requirements, I'm pretty sure everyone owns the entire series by now. Simply character who just finished prophecies vs character who just finished factions.

Quote:

Can anyone confirm if there's a difference between the Hard Mode version of the quests and the normal quests in Hard Mode?
I thought there was (but it was only an intuition based off me blowing up quickly with a setup that previously steamrolled the mobs), but a guildie hasn't noticed.

I can't see a difference myself. Keep in mind, enemy's builds can change between several sets and, as with WiK, some of them can be exceedingly dangerous while others are barely worth more than their auto attack damage in comparison.

Its really annoying that when I do the NM quests in HM (because NM is loleasy) that I can't get HM credit without redoing the mission over again.

Xenomortis · Jul 09, 2011, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

I can't see a difference myself. Keep in mind, enemy's builds can change between several sets and, as with WiK, some of them can be exceedingly dangerous while others are barely worth more than their auto attack damage in comparison.

I doubt that was the reason for my failure; I'd faced many Afflicted mobs in the normal quests in Hard Mode using this setup with no problems at all, whereas I very quickly wiped on the first mob in the first Hard Mode quest without killing many of them. I'm more inclined to put it down to a catastrophic mistake; the only reason I assumed there was a difference was because I didn't know how I'd made a catastrophic mistake; so I simply altered my setup and went back to steamrolling.

I suppose an easy way to check would be for me to do the Minister Cho's HM quest since any differences should be fairly distinctive there, but I need to sleep.

Kunder · Jul 09, 2011, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I doubt that was the reason for my failure; I'd faced many Afflicted mobs in the normal quests in Hard Mode using this setup with no problems at all, whereas I very quickly wiped on the first mob in the first Hard Mode quest without killing many of them. I'm more inclined to put it down to a catastrophic mistake; the only reason I assumed there was a difference was because I didn't know how I'd made a catastrophic mistake; so I simply altered my setup and went back to steamrolling.

Its certainly possible. 2 assassins can teleport right into the middle of your group and explode for massive damage while a nuker hits the same spot or something, I suppose. I'm simply going off the fact that the hardest quest so far for me (#3) killed me in NM/HM the first time, I barely won in NM/HM the second time and then did slightly better in HM/HM the 1st time. There may be some differences but at least in my experience its not enough to outweigh the average variation in my playing abilities, the AI randomness, and the AI skillset.

NerfHerder · Jul 09, 2011, 02:35 AM // 02:35

I just finished the NM Storyline or whatever you call it. I could have done with about half of the cleansing quests, and excluded noob island all together.

But, once I hit Rhea's Crater the content became alot of fun. The difficulty level is just right and I am really enjoying the storyline. As long as the content keeps up the same pace, I'll be happy. Thanks ANet! I even bought the costumes to show my support!

Arato · Jul 09, 2011, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

I wasn't considering requirements, I'm pretty sure everyone owns the entire series by now. Simply character who just finished prophecies vs character who just finished factions.

Well I'm saying it should be considered. For normal mode anyway. Normal mode shouldn't be about challenging metagamers and people who run elite content, normal mode should be about players who are playing through for story. HARD MODE was created for people who metagame and want more challenge that normal mode wasn't designed to provide.

Lanier · Jul 09, 2011, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arato

Well I'm saying it should be considered. For normal mode anyway. Normal mode shouldn't be about challenging metagamers and people who run elite content, normal mode should be about players who are playing through for story. HARD MODE was created for people who metagame and want more challenge that normal mode wasn't designed to provide.

Going to go ahead and throw in my agreement with this. I haven't done WoC yet, so I can't speak on its difficulty or anything related to it really. I do agree with this philosophy though, and I hope that NM WoC is similar in difficulty to NM WiK. Of course... I'll probably still do HM for kicks, but who knows?

Ximvotn · Jul 09, 2011, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Going to go ahead and throw in my agreement with this. I haven't done WoC yet, so I can't speak on its difficulty or anything related to it really. I do agree with this philosophy though, and I hope that NM WoC is similar in difficulty to NM WiK. Of course... I'll probably still do HM for kicks, but who knows?

I used my best hero set up. They all have runes, insignias, and weapons, but after clearing two mobs I realized it was only in NM and couldn't imagine HM. It will be challenging for sure.

Kelfer · Jul 09, 2011, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Challenging, yes. They could have been a little more original w. the mobs here tho. It's a bit like doing Vizunah Sq. over and over ...... New theme pls and not all these afflicted?

Arato · Jul 09, 2011, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ximvotn

I used my best hero set up. They all have runes, insignias, and weapons, but after clearing two mobs I realized it was only in NM and couldn't imagine HM. It will be challenging for sure.

A couple tips I can give are to use single target damage instead of aoe, despite them being in large groups. You gotta control their death explosions, they have all sorts of effects like setting you on fire, healing afflicted around them, draining energy, knockdowns, etc.

While you don't use aoe they will, I suggest using a rit hero if available to use soul twisting and shelter and armor of unfeeling, that will reduce a lot of the damage you take across the entire party. It works better than a prot monk I've found, and you can also give that same rit some damage skills in the communing line like disenchantment and dissonance. Before doing pulls manually make sure they have soul twisting up, then use shelter back a ways from where you'll be fighting, so that you'll be in range of its effect, but the spirit will be out of mob's aggro range, then use armor of unfeeling (to make shelter last longer).

Also, because you won't be using aoe, but they'll be in large groups, you gotta control their skill use. You gotta have a panic mesmer.

tummlykins · Jul 09, 2011, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ximvotn

I used my best hero set up. They all have runes, insignias, and weapons, but after clearing two mobs I realized it was only in NM and couldn't imagine HM. It will be challenging for sure.

I used a balanced hero set up, with a mesmer, paragon, ranger (with pet), elementalist, monk, ritualist, necromancer and myself on my assassin and I didn't have trouble with any of it using strategies I would use on any end game missions (think Realm of Torment missions, Raisu Palace etc). I pulled when I had to get small groups from large mobs (Dragon's Throat) and made use of walls and basic aggro techniques to mob them together for splinter weapon and psychi instability. I'm sure any number of other strategies would have worked.

You don't need to run discord or triple necro or spiritway to complete this content (although my rit was a signet of spirits, splinter weapon, restoration hybrid). I did the first quest with a party once I was finished, just cause I enjoyed them, and they party sucked badly. They tried to specialise in a certain strategy and the hero builds one guy brought to fill it out were pretty suckage.

Brian the Gladiator · Jul 09, 2011, 08:36 AM // 08:36

If you don't like the quests A-Net is putting out, simply stop paying the subscription fee... oh wait... point taken.

Kelfer · Jul 09, 2011, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I'm being forced to do the quests again in HM, WTH???? Is this bugged?
I took 1 in HM near the start, but really want a fast run thru in NM :/ sux

Apok · Jul 09, 2011, 09:02 AM // 09:02

For the Afflicted, I used a (hero) hybrid Paragon/Rit combo. Basically, have the Paragons spike down a target (Rits/Necros/Monks/Eles/Mesmers/Sins/Warriors is the priority I took) and have the rits supply them with Warmongers, Weap of Shadow, etc. while backing them with spirits. AP caller bar works okay for the player.

The Jade and Am Fah guys go down quickly with pure SH teams, seeing as how they like to focus on killing spirits and minions quick and there is no danger to them exploding. They also have little to no interruption, whereas the Afflicted have disruption up the ass.

It looks as though both the gangs and the Afflicted where designed to take down Sabways and your general casterways, respectively. Both are easily abused, however.

As for the difficulty, I agree it should be toned down, and that the HM versions should've acted more like the NM versions we have now, but with HM buffs and all that. Brings out tons of frustration that shouldn't be let in when going through a storytelling.

Lastly, anyone notice how in the last quest of this part, our hero says he wants to avoid as much bloodshed as possible, then goes and kills 50 mobs of Jade Bros? Seems like it would have made for an interesting stealth mission if properly executed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

After reading all the posts I cant be bothered to try this out.

'Kill all enemies' was the third worst thing that happened to this game after titles and consumables.

Oh no, the quests get progressively better. I.E., first you are instructed to kill some dudes while getting this one guy's view on the situation, then do some ally-saving (Cho's estate is the only real pain-in-the-ass one), then learn more and more about the gangs of Cantha and the Afflicted that are reappearing.

This was really the same way WiK was implemented, it just wasn't in this huge of a release, so people didn't notice how repetitive it got.

bhavv · Jul 09, 2011, 09:07 AM // 09:07

After reading all the posts I cant be bothered to try this out.

'Kill all enemies' was the third worst thing that happened to this game after titles and consumables.

tummlykins · Jul 09, 2011, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

After reading all the posts I cant be bothered to try this out.

'Kill all enemies' was the third worst thing that happened to this game after titles and consumables.

You're only cheating yourself by doing that. The first quest gets you to kill three mobs of afflicted relatively close to each other. Most of the cleanse quests are like that, it takes less than 10 minutes. The cleanse quests end and it moves into somethign else afterwards, either way you will never know until you try it yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

If you don't like the quests A-Net is putting out, simply stop paying the subscription fee... oh wait... point taken.

Just because people don't pay a subscription fee doesn't mean their feedback and opinions are not valuable. Everyone has standards and things they like more than others. Arguing anything over a subscription fee is ignorant and plain insulting to the developers who made this content. They didn't create inferior work simply because there is no subscription fee. If people don't enjoy the cleansing quests (and a lot of people, myself not included, didn't) that's valuable feedback for the developers when planning the kinds of content to implement in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelfer

I'm being forced to do the quests again in HM, WTH???? Is this bugged?
I took 1 in HM near the start, but really want a fast run thru in NM :/ sux

You either found a rare bug or you've done something wrong. He offers you the next quest in the chain as soon as you accept the reward for the last one you did. If you talk to him again after taking it he will offer you the first quest in HM, but it doesn't prevent you from going on to do the next quest in the chain in NM. If he is only offering you the first quest in HM, check your quest log to see if you already took the next NM quest.

Mexay · Jul 09, 2011, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Makai-

It's a fun quest, but note you have to find the drakes in a fixed order.

So how are primary Dervishes faring? I'm going through the quests on my Assassin and it's impossible to keep SoH up for more than two attacks.

Oh, and does the DLC dragon armor look alright on normal sized characters? I don't want to waste money if it acts like the Shining Blade costume.

I finished WoC (on NM) a few hours ago on my dervish main. Surprisingly when I use my VoS FoWSC build it basically cuts through the afflicted if I actually pay attention. Otherwise I basically get butt-raped if I do what I've been doing on my VQs.

VQ
*goes afk for a minute*
2 full mobs are dead or almost dead

WoC NM
*goes afk for 30 seconds*
Either party whipe or 1/4 of my party is still alive and Gwen is running around like a chicken with her head off.

Wielder Of Magic · Jul 09, 2011, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Makai-

So how are primary Dervishes faring?

After finishing all quests in NM yesterday and now working my way through the HM versions I can say that its pretty doable so far.
Because of the massive disenchant i decided not take soh, but rely on grenth and splinter weapon instead.

As long as you precast something like shelter, and pull&flag correctly its perfectly viable.
Ofcourse when you are a derv that hits 3 targets at the same time, SY! is pretty much a standard skill on my bar.

As mentioned before, only minister cho's can be a pain when h/h'ing it ( I did that one in HM with a pug me being D/W, a P/W, Mo/E, and Rt/R , but h/h'ed normal mode, and that was quite..challenging).

makosi · Jul 09, 2011, 10:39 AM // 10:39

I'm wondering how many points we'd get for vanquishing Morostav Trail with the Cleansing Morostav Trail quest active. Might be a great farm for those who are working on their Kurzick title.

bhavv · Jul 09, 2011, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Yea you need builds that dont rely on enchants and good hex removal against afflicted.

One thing I forgot to ask is are there any new weapons that can be added to HoM?

I would do it for that.